Clan problems and solutions.

This would be a good time to discuss problems and possible solutions that we, as a clan face. Please keep in mind the guiding premises that caused us to form union. We wanted to be different than other clans, with the focus on the members and not on clan size or goals that excluded the individuals.

This is not a thread to just bitch and complain, we want to hear solutions as well as problems. I'll start.

Problems:1) Players that don't log in and are just taking up
space.

Solution: It has been suggested and has full support of the
officers that we turn Bliss into a nursery, as it
were, Players under lvl 20 will become members of
Bliss until they reach lvl 20, then they can
transfer to Union as full members. To facilitate
this idea, Bliss will be expanded to 25 to
accomodate new recruits. Deaucalion has volunteered
to oversee those new players and keep track of their
progress. Officers that haven't as yet, are
encouraged to place their alts in Bliss in order to
help new players learn the ropes. Esha and I have
alts in Bliss now. (Aelar and Padin) Players in
Bliss will be used in alt wars to gain terr and dom.

Problems:2) Lack of participation of clan members in the alt
wars. It seems to be the same group every war. If
you want the clan to have runes, you MUST
participate.

Problems:3) Raising rp to activate runes. Other than taxes, the
same small group of people are donating to keep them
activated. If we want high lvl runes, we need the rp
to activate them. Our alt wars have supplied
sufficient dom and terr, but we need the rp as well.

Possible
solutions: Raise taxes, mandatory monthly donations, lower our
sights and activate more but less powerful runes,
direct people to larger secondary clans to gain
access to their runes.

Problems:4) It has been suggested, and rightly so, that I keep
too tight a grip on the clan. Believe me, it was never
because I'm a control freak...well, maybe a little.
I'd rather take on the problems myself, than burden
others.

Solution: Once we decide on the direction we want to go, various
areas will be placed under the officer's control.
However, if agreement cannot be reached I do reserve
the right to break deadlocks.



These are the problems that come to my mind, I'm sure there are others. This is an OPEN discussion, feel free to be honest in your assessments, but please, don't just bitch, offer solutions.

As an inactive member (who never contributed any gold to the clan and never uses the runes), I don't really have any right to say what should or should not be done.

Having some experience form other online games and other clans here in NOD, I can only offer my humble opinion regarding the problems that Union ran into.

1 - Inactive people are... well, inactive. If the inactivity is prolonged and they didn't see fit to even inform the clan how long they'll be absent for, then they just don't respect the clan.
Moving them to an alt clan is a very good solution.
"Kicking" them out for the time being does not mean they can not come back into the clan later.

Freeing up more space for new clannies will also (hopefully) contribute to solving problems 2 and 3.

I realize that this can also be applied to me - I don't participate in wars and do not contribute to RP, so I'm pretty much useless when it comes to those things.
I will not hold it against you if you decide to invite someone more productive in my stead.

2 - Do what CHAOS does. If people don't participate in clan wars, they should donate more RP. If they donate more RP, they don't necessarily have to participate in wars.
People with grinder are best suited for clan wars, as they do not waste rrt during the battles.

If some people really do not contribute (like me), then you should discuss it on one-to-one basis and explain to them that apparently they don't really want to stay in the clan.
I know that it sounds harsh, but if people want to stay together, they should all contribute.

3 - Same as above.

4 - The only thing I can say is that you shouldn't let your mood affect the way you deal with people in-game. Everyone has a bad day every once in a while, but that doesn't mean you can be just rude.

5(?) - I think that the suggestion about delegating people to bigger secondary clans has its merits. People get access to better runes, more clannies to help with cheaper items/mats/you name it.
The downside is clearly evident in how I behave - such people do not have much of an incentive to donate RP and/or fight in clan wars.

P.S. For myself I want to add that I really did try to contribute writing those "tutorials" and helping people whenever they had any questions in-game (whether PMing me or asking on clan chat).

Let it be noted that Baal is a special case for his continuing role with the tutorials and advice.

Ok. I'll weigh in.

One - kick them is the easy answer, but kicking costs us 10K RP. I'll help cover that when I am on and am able.

Two - Alt wars are pretty much a necessity. I think we might be able to do something in shifts - have a few members from the clan handle one war (by handling both sides, alts and slayers), then the next war falls to another group. Having alts in Bliss will help regardless - right now it's always Aelar, Padin, Kitrae, Deau and Firegirl. Having active alts in Bliss will also help contribute RP for the next alt war, because the 100K minimum required for Bliss to go to war is generally coming from one or two players.

Three - I've been trying to come up with a good plan on this for a while now. I think that a mandatory donation is the simplest way to go. One rank 3+ costs 900K RP to activate. We're halfway through the month with 716K RP so we're close to having enough for one rune. If we want more runes, we are gonna have to generate more RP. I'd love to see lots of great runes activated but I can't see that happening without a set donation.

Hello everyone, first off I'd like to say that the core members of this clan are some of the best people that I have had the pleasure of serving with. I've always liked that we were a clan that focused on it's members and not solely on having a the best runes, the most rp etc etc. It's nice to log in and have fun and not worry about some obsessive leader harping on you to play more or donate more etc etc.

On the flip side though I do believe that is ones responsibility to put into the group whatever you can. Be it donating gold for RP, helping new clan mates, spreading the good word to everyone you meet about your clan, crafting items/pots and the list goes on and on.

The "problems" that Union is facing is probably the most common one that the majority of clans have. Finding people who are active daily and donate a boat load of gold and items. Would be the first problem on the list.

There are a few ways to address that problem. One would be to actively seek out those players. I know that the big clans usually gobble those people up pretty fast so it leaves the rest of us looking for the diamonds in the rough, so to speak. I suppose one way would be to befriend as many players with killer builds and who are active and maybe sway them to join our great guild. Down side being it's a pain in the ass and those players are usually with good clans anyways. Worth a shot though IMHO.

Another way would be to camp out in the docks and "interview" new players coming in. Down side to that is it is very time consuming and sometimes you find people who won't leave you alone and just bother you for things. Not too mention you'd want to make 100% sure that the person would be right for the clan before adding them 10000 rp is a bit harsh a penalty to have a revolving door of players come through

Maybe we could cater to certain players/aspects of the game. For example, wpack caters to pkk'ers, skull caters to Pk'ers. Just a thought i know it's dangerous making one aspect a focus as patches that come in seem to nerf anything good in this game.

Having people go inactive always puts a hard decision on the clan leaders(s) shoulder. Especially if that person(s) is a fun/popular player but the clan does have to come first. I know real life take priority so some people just fade away. In any case there should be some sort of communication between a player going inactive and the upper management of the clan. Perhaps we could put a section in the forum where people can post when they will be away or if they are going inactive etc. etc. I'm all for kicking someone who hasn't communicated that they are either taking a leave of absence or leaving the game. Each spot in the clan should have someone who is willing to contribute something in it.

A thought on earning some gold for the guild. If 3 of the higher level players are online at the same time would it be possible to group these players and farm Epics? I know Epic drops don't come as often as most people would like but some of the high level epics fetch a nice price and with Baal's awesome tutorial on Epic farming we might be able to pinpoint when we could get some.

I have a thought on the alt wars as well. I know personally, that when the alt wars take place on a weekend I'm not around much and when I am there are no Bliss members to pound on. If all the officers have alts in bliss it and they share their account passwords amongst each other they could log the alts and have them setup at t1, and t2. I know sharing passwords is kinda a no no but i can't see it hurting if only the Officers had them and only for the alts. Just a thought.

That's all i can think of right now. If i have any Epiphanies I'll be sure to rampble n some more. Thanks for reading

Greetings from the land of the lizard king.
I am verrry happy clannies are knocking their heads together.
Few suggestions i can offer :
1. RP donations are pretty much voluntary, but those who can should, especially after selling a drop. After all, a little credit to getting that drop goes to rune use, and thus a percentage (say 25%) of the sell value of the drop goes to clan RP
2. In my other clan, we celebrate mile stones by donating RP. For ex, if i ding melee 107, i donate 1070 to clan...and so on. it all adds up. and its fun
3. Inactive players/slackers have to be placed in bliss, no doubt about it. let them grow there and when ready we can induct em into union
4. players who have the archruneolgy lvls and are in bliss may complain about no runes, but that is the sacrifice they must make. OR is it possible to activate a few small runes in bliss too?
5. Can we not have a perpetual war with bliss? why do we need to end it unless the time comes for real war...it costs a bomb to keep goin to war. many big clans have perpetual wars.
6. i love breys idea of sharing passwords for alts...i am sure i can trust my charac my fellow officers hands any day! they may even improve charac for me . we cud post the passwords in the for-officers-only link
7. also. breys idea of having a note pad/ message board in the forum for anyone who needs to be away from the game is very good. keep set topics on that message board to fill out, so that we know for how long they gonna be away and how to reach em.
8. recruitment is the responsibilty of ANY player who can invite. ie veteran, officer n master. and we all better get down to it n stop making excuses. if other clans can recruit we can too
9. ari n froth always suggest that we should have an alt only day, so that the blissies also grow. higher lvl alts = more RP in bliss, n better terr n dom per kill...we cud also have an alt only week...
10. (and finally) LOVE u guys! keep up the great work...and if anyone needs any help, u know union is there for u.. GO UNION!

If someone feels like working up an alt from a relatively good start, I have a little one lvl 17 with a 20 crusher, chipmunk and a full 20 suit (including shield).

The only problem is that I have absolutely no time to play that char.

He can also join bliss and I really don't mind passing on the pass to whoever could build it up for killing in alt war. It was used in TREE, it can be used here again.

When it comes to Brey's idea about farming epics - unfortunately our high level players are under-epicked. Me, for one - I have the most ragtag set ever (78 helm, 58 sleeves, 81 chest, 80 legs, 81 slashers, 80 bow, 75 arrow, 58 quiver). Also, my sitter plays me most of the time, so I can't really contribute much for another month or so. Sorry

I'll work on your alt baal if you don't mind.

I like the idea of an alt day/alt week. I devoted my gaming time to Aelar tonight and will be doing so again tomorrow so that I can help the new recruits and level her up to make the warring more efficient. In the long run it will help me kick the TC habit on Esha - spending way too much money on those!

I also like Thana's suggestion of making the war a perpetual one and having some runes in Bliss - they don't need to be Rank 3s but a few rank 2s would be good. And I like the idea of the alts being able to fight back ! Makes the whole thing less dull for everyone.

Lastly, I'm cool with sharing passwords for the alts. Froth and Ari both have Aelar's current password, in fact.

Everyone has brought up some excellent points on how we can make clan better. It's nice to see everyone putting an opinion forth and genuinely trying to help in the situation.

My worry though; as it has always been, is evident even now reading this thread. There are the same few members contributing to this conversation, and it is often the same ones throughout the forum. It is the same in game as well. Aside from the core crew, many seem content doing the bare minimal.

I know not everyone will agree with what I say, and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just feel it has always been a case of the few supporting the many.

Arioch is absolutely right. Each player is to be informed that they HAVE to read this thread and post a reply within a week ( week considering someone may be away)

Also, this thread is for coming up with a decision on how to make clan self sufficient, and if enough players, esp the officers come up with a consensus it is a decision that will be applicable to all players, whether they read this thread or not.

And, a note of players who dont read this forum n post replies needs to be made and suitable reprimand/action taken

I don't think anyone disagrees that there is an imbalance and that it's escalated into a strain on those of us who are donating/warring to cover the cost of runes. It also prevents us from HAVING better or more runes because we've already tapped out. Just saying it's a problem doesn't solve it, though, just as demanding change won't create change without some effort being made to facilitate it. But that's the whole point of this thread - to solve the problem and figure out where to put the effort to make the needed change.

I fully agree that whatever is decided needs to be made applicable to every member in the clan whether they voice an opinion or not. I'd love to see everyone come and VOICE an opinion, but that doesn't happen even in the largest clans, so we'll have to work with what we get.

It's easy for a clan to become complacent. To allow problems to build up while worrying about your own build or lvls. On occasion a shake up is necessary. I freely admit I am guilty of that. This thread was set up to tear away the veils and expose our warts to all, but more importantly to find the solutions that will make us a better clan. I'm posting a summary of the above comments in the officers thread. We (your officers) will spend the weekend going over the summary and will, by early next week have an altered set of rules and guidelines that will make us a better clan.

okies read all your posts.
The problems you are posting is what each and every clan has as a problem

I am an officer in Pride....and well masters and officers tend to be paying more rp for clan allways.....I am not contributing iin there lately either cause i need to buy new gems for my 5 alts.

Next to all other stuff, I got out of Bliss cause I was the only one online back then and within Union the same is applicable, cause I live in another timezone then most other clannies. FG has quit (at least thats what I think) and she and I were mostly the only two online at the same time.

Next to this all I have 6 chars and I am babysitting 3 others and won't be able to maintain a face on all of them cause I have less time to play.

I know a lot about clans and we will never be able to get higher runes then 3+ ones if we stay small......the clan will have to grow to at least 50 members, better would be 100, but thats expensive. So my solution to it is expand the clan to 50 members this is do-able and get new recruits.....more members is more rp

more members means more alts too and better rp gain in Bliss too, next its a waste to get runes in Bliss cause it will get a bigger drain on the ones purchasing the rp now.....

well thats my thoughts about the problems

Think best is to expand and use no runes in Bliss....ooohh and put tax in Bliss to 50%

having an alt in bliss is like a service by players in union....so lets not tax em more

I have to agree with Thana. Members in BLISS need to be able to afford new gear, level, etc....and that'd be tough at 50% tax. They're already lambs to the slaughter....